Update: A few updates on this -
- Yokohead found the part in the terms of service that specifies 6 devices, is clarifying further details and is being very grown-up about it. Kudos.
- Gravitational Pull are accusing me of pulling a geardiary -
The Kindle 2 Review, without any real confirmation, is claiming that there is no per-book download limit and that the post above results from a misunderstanding about the six device limit
I guess downloading numerous books 10-20 times each is not confirmation. Real confirmation is taking a confused amazon customer service rep and using their words as opposed to what kindle owners are finding out i.e. there is no download limit.
- And GearDiary have changed their stance, even though its still anti-Amazon -
First, it’s 3 customer service reps now, and not 1. The claim of limited downloads has changed from all books to ‘limited for some books’. Of course, mentioning which books these are would be too easy for geardiary to do that. We should just try that for all 3000K books and find the 10 which have a 4 download limit.
Numerous kindle owners have downloaded numerous books more than 6 times. We continue to see bloggers write about this without really confirming it – a lot don’t even own a Kindle.
I started this blog because of people like this who were discrediting the Kindle for no valid reason. Sad to see this nonsense continue.
The Original Article
Dan Cohen at Geardiary has posted a classic linkbait article about the Kindle. Here’s his claim -
That the number of times you can download a book is limited to x times.
That’s nonsense.
Here’s what the policy really is -
A book can be downloaded to at most 6 devices.
Why did GearDiary have a problem?
When GearDiary tried to download a book to more than 6 devices they ran into a problem.
The screenshot they have up clearly says this i.e. ‘Cannot send to selected Device’. It says nothing about reaching the maximum number of downloads. Just to prove this -
Went into my account and downloaded and sent a few books to my various Kindles a lot of times (10-20 times each). It works. There is no limitation on number of downloads.
Obviously the Amazon customer service representative who didn’t know the policy is equally to blame.
Now this piece of complete nonsense is circulating across the Internet –
- Yokohead jumped at the article and now is angry with Amazon. Update: Kudos to yokohead for checking up and updating the post. It seems that even after you hit your 6 device limit, you can talk to customer service and change what devices can receive a book (or something similar).
- Ocell.net are writing about it.
Soon there will be dozens of articles talking about this non-issue.
The Truth
Its a 6 device limit. There is no number of downloads limit for a book you’ve bought. Its always with you for your 6 devices.
My Thoughts
- 6 is a pretty reasonable number. Unless everyone in your family has a kindle and an ipod and an itouch.
- Amazon really ought to have someone in their PR department monitor this sort of stuff.
- GearDiary really ought to confirm facts before posting.
Once the newspapers are gone, its going to be fun living in a world where everyone is writing sensationalist link-bait rather than reporting what’s happening.
Filed under: news | Tagged: journalism, lack thereof
[...] switch11 called out my pissed off rant for what it was – and was correct, much to my chagrin. I went ahead and actually redownloaded a copy of a book I just bought about 25 times on the same device before getting tired of testing the point. Also went and crawled through Amazon’s page to find their mention of DRM which states: Content from the Kindle Store: Most books and other non-subscription items you purchase from the Kindle store may be downloaded for your personal use on to up to six Kindles registered to your Amazon.com account. If you have exceeded your download limit, you must purchase an additional copy of the title. Subscription content can only be downloaded to one Kindle at a time, and only the seven most recent issues will be available for redownload in the Kindle Content Manager or from the Manage Your Kindle page. [...]
Thanks for the callout, I’ve updated and removed my original raging post. Won’t be doing that again.
I don’t own kindle, but how do you respond to this claim:
—-
Dan Cohen Says:
June 20th, 2009 at 12:08 am
I would be very happy for Amazon to come along and tell me that the information that THEIR rep gave me is wrong. BUT…before I posted I tried downloading one book over and over again and it eventually stopped letting me.
Again, I would be very happy if the guy were just wrong in what he told me and would more than apologize to Amazon for raising the issue (although HE gave me the info) but it certainly doesn’t look that way.
Also, it does look like you can save books to your computer and, I would assume, sync them to your Kindle but since I never heard that there were limits to the number of times you can redownload YOUR books why would I do that? At a MINIMUM Amazon should make a clear statement to do so.
—
Could it be that some books are unlimited download, and others limited? Dan Cohen’s article claims it is up to the publisher to decide on the number, whereas you cite a kindle policy of max 6.
the central issue is how every kindle owner is going to get affected.
and in those terms the policy is that you can download to your computer or to 1 out of 6 devices as many times as you like.
Yes, Amazon should clear out the confusion. however, if you look at yokohead blog – they dug up the official policy which says 6 devices.
This is obvious linkbait by GearDiary. And he says it ‘eventually’ stops letting him download a book. What does that mean – after 100 downloads? after 10 downlaods?
It definitely doesn’t stop you after 10 downloads.
The big fear he’s trying to create is you might have to rebuy your book after downloading it 6 times. Which is utter nonsense.
“The big fear he’s trying to create is you might have to rebuy your book after downloading it 6 times. Which is utter nonsense.”
That is EXACTLY what I meant when I wrote it and it was EXACTLY what the customer rep told me- even after I asked in three different ways since I had a hard time believing this could be the case.
When I followed up yesterday it took three different reps to get any sort of a coherent answer to the questions I was asking and, even then, a large portion of the answer to getting clarity on how many devices are permitted prior to buying was, “There is no way to know that but we hope to have some sort of system for it in the future”.
He also told me that your statement that “Its always with you for your 6 devices.” may be generally true but it is not always true as it is up to the publisher and there is no way to know. It was not, in fact, true for some of my books.
At best the DRM policy lacks clarity and needs refinement.
I love my Kindle but even the reps aren’t clear on the specifics.
Excellent response. Thank you for setting the record straight.
I went ahead and emailed Amazon customer service requesting what the DRM policy is – specifically whether there is a per-publisher device limit that’s set, and if so, why this isn’t publicized. If not the case, what is the actual policy?
I’m hoping there’ll be more time to craft a considered response without the immediacy of needing to give an answer on the phone.
that’s a good question. have no answer.
publishers will do anything they can to slow down adoption of kindles so look for them to try and set some ridiculous limit like 1-2 devices.
—From Amazon—
The availability of content in the Kindle Store depends on the author or publisher that owns rights to the content.
We don’t limit the number of Kindles that can be registered to an Amazon.com account. Kindle books can only be downloaded on up to six devices, depending on licensing limits specified by the publisher.
—
There’s more but it’s basically cut/paste. No answer on where the per-publisher limits are posted before or during purchase.
[...] 6/21 The Kindle 2 Review, without any real confirmation, is claiming that there is no per-book download limit and that the [...]
just because a few customer service reps are confused doesn’t change the policy.
6 kindle devices; unlimited downloads.
would you care to let us know the books for which the 6 devices limit isn’t true.
and you do realize that its clearly a publisher setting. even if books with a less than 6 devices limit exist, the default for the vast majority of books is 6. your article clearly attacks amazon as being behind the alleged download and device limitations even though you’re saying its a publisher setting.